Donna Ray Interview

Partial Transcript: But everybody knows her as Rachel Ray. Well, so I've had the ballad singing coming at me from all different sides. I know that my grandfather, Byard—all I really remember him doing my whole life was playing the fiddle, playing music. He was always traveling out somewhere. He always would bring his fiddle case over to the house when he'd come home to Sodom. And after being off at some big, extravagant something he had going on. And he'd get out his rosin for his bow, and he would always tell me it was some sort magical crystal that he'd got when he was off in some other land. And I don't remember him ever having a job, job, I guess I would say. I just remember him playing music. And that's how I remember him.
My grandfather Morris, he was a real ornery kind of man. I don't really remember him doing much other than just kind of odd jobs around, I guess. I don't—but I was born late, so my grandparents were a lot older when I was born. So maybe they were retired by then. [laughter] But he was the type of man that would pet you when you were sleeping, kind of love on you when were sleeping. But when you were in head—the story is that he'd knock you in the head with his cane like when you went by him. So I think they probably sang the old love songs and stuff as they were kind of working and doing that sort of thing around.
I know that the old love songs were brought over from the British Isles from my ancestors. And the way that the old timers used to learn the ballad singing tradition was knee-to-knee. And so, basically, the elder person would teach the younger person by singing one verse of the song. And then the young person would sing it back to them. And then the older person would sing the second verse, and the young person would sing the first verse and the second verse, and so on and so forth. By the time I started singing, a lot of the older folks that had started singing the ballads and sang them had passed away. So I've had my mom, Lena Jean Ray, and my cousin, Sheila Kay Adams, to learn from and a recording of Doug Wallin. And then my uncle, Emmett Norton, gave me some words to some songs that my grandfather, Morris, used to sing. I've had to kind of learn to how to sing these old songs by listening to a CD or tap and just kind of rewinding, pause, and play, and rewind, pause, and play. And I typically write them down because it helps me remember the words. So I think that's kind of how it's evolved as far as from my time and their time, but it's something I really enjoy doing. And it's important to me that this tradition is kept alive and passed on from generation to generation because it's something so raw and natural and pure, I feel like, that it needs to be carried on and continued. I mean, it's not like mainstream music these days where everything is auto-tuned and done with synthesizers and that sort of thing. It's just something that comes from the heart. So I feel like it's really important that it be carried on because it's one of the oldest traditions around. It's important to me.

Partial Transcript: When I was growing up, the way that I learned and heard the old love songs was just at home. They were just kind of sung in the kitchen as my grandmother was doing, making breakfast or cooking supper, or my mom would just sing them to kind of relax in the evenings. And she would record herself. They would have get-togethers at Sheila's house, and it would be Sheila, my mom, Bobby McMillon, sometimes Marilyn McMinn McCredie would be there. Just a ton of the older like generation above me, I guess. My mom and her cousins and her cousins. And they would all get together and sing the ballads in the kitchen and just talk about where they learned them and whose verses were the right verses and who sang the correct style and whose tune was right and that sort of thing. And so I heard the songs growing up my whole life. They were always around me. I always heard them being sung. And a lot of times when I'm singing the ballads on stage or I'm looking through those people that are singing, you'll catch me yawning a little bit. And I don't know if it's because I have some sort of mental I go back to when I was eight years old, and I hear my mom, and she was singing in the kitchen. That's how my cousins, 0:06:28.2 ???(s/l Hart) and Andrew and I, would fall asleep a lot of times at night listening to Sheila and Mama and Bobby singing those old love songs. And so I think I just start feeling like a kid again when I'm on stage. I catch myself yawning, and I have to stop doing that because I feel like—I don't want everybody to think I'm bored, but I'm literally just going back to this time and place in my mind where I feel like a kid again.
Male Speaker
Not a lul—it wasn't a lullaby.
Donna Ray
It's not a lullaby. No, we did go to sleep to some pretty morbid songs, I guess, if you think about it that way. I think it's just the sing-songiness of it that kind of goes you off to sleep.

Partial Transcript: I'm not really sure that anybody knows the real history of it. I mean, you can say what you read in a book or whatnot, but what I've always heard and what I've been taught is that the people in the old country would learn a ballad. The way a lot of these old songs started is because the people in the old country didn't have ways to communicate over distances like you didn't have newspapers. You didn't have television, telephones, these sorts of things. So you could just see somebody back then on a horse with a carriage or something, and they're having to get moved from one village or kingdom to another. And so they have to remember this story to tell. And so the way that they did that was just to kind of learn a rhyme or a song, and then carry it on from there. So that's what I've always been taught, and that's what I've always heard. Word of mouth, I guess. I don't know. I think that sounds like a pretty legitimate answer though whenever I ask that question. How do we know that this is how—I feel like that's a good—it makes sense. So I feel like probably—you know—that's how it started out there. And then it just kind of progressed the way that it did and got passed down because people are interested in those stories and songs and that. I'm sure some of the words and things got changed around a little bit as they do when they get passed down from time to time. But I really feel like that made a lot of sense in my mind. So that's the story that I'll use.

Male Speaker
Did you ever go back to England or Scotland?
Donna Ray
No, I've never been. I've never been back to England or Scotland. I did do a sight session recently at Marshall College for the hundred year anniversary of Cecil Sharp coming to the mountains with a group of people from England. So that was pretty cool. That's the closest I've ever gotten to going back there, but I would love to go. I think that would be just the coolest thing ever to experience that, just to really get down to my roots and see where everything started and why I get to do what I get to do for people. I just don't even what that guy is doing over there. It sounds like some horror event.

Partial Transcript: Well, I know that, like I said, the ballad singing has been in my family for eight generations. That's a really long time. So I feel like it just traveled here with my family from the British Isles and Ireland or England and all those different places that my family came from. And I think that the people here just sung those old songs to pass the time. Like I said, there weren't radios and televisions to entertain you. You had to figure out a way to entertain yourself. And my family has always been very musical, and it's like a very deep-rooted feeling in all of us. My brother doesn’t sing ballads, but he loves rock and roll, and he loves to play music more than anything just like I want to sing more than anything. I think that they just kept it going because it was something that was interesting to them. And they learned how to sing those old songs and keep themselves entertained. I'm not really sure how it came over, but I know the reason—I'm sure one of the reasons that it became so popular or well known is because of Cecil Sharp coming to the mountains.

Partial Transcript: Yeah, Cecil Sharp came to the mountains of west North Carolina 100 years ago. This is the 100 anniversary of when he came through. And he went from place to place visiting with a bunch of people from the area and learning all the old love songs from them. And so he and Maud Karpeles wrote down all these old ballads and who they learned them from, and so he has this wonderful treasure trove of all these old love songs and things. And some of those people were my ancestors that he learned those songs from. And so I feel like if he wouldn't have come through and written all that stuff down for somebody in the future to read and see, to learn about, these old songs probably would have died out a long time ago. And I think that he even said in his book that he didn't think they were going to last much longer because the tradition was fading away with the old people. But there are people like me and my cousins or my kids or my cousin's kids that want to continue to sing those love songs, and we'll try to keep it alive as long as we can. And I know that—I think—I can't remember. I believe it's Alan Lomax came through recording some of the old songs. And I think the folk music revival from the fifties and sixties, I want to say—I probably should say the sixties because my mom was in college in New York during the folk music revival. And so I think that had a lot to do with the ballad singing kind of keeping itself going because people started to really get interested in that whole root of the song and where did it come from and who learned it from who. That sounds really old, and they like that whole thing. It's kind of like the New Age hipsters. The hipsters kind of get into that sort of thing too. I think it just cycles. It goes through phases where it is popular, and it's not popular. It's popular; it's not popular. But now, you have groups like Mumford and Sons and the Pistol Annies who are covering these old ballads. Like it's really neat when you hear it on the radio or hear it in the bar, and you're like, "Oh my gosh! That's on the radio." And I wonder if those people know what they are singing or where it came from. It's—I think it had a lot to do with Cecil Sharp coming over here. And I also believe that all of the people that came through during the folk music revival helped keep it going as well.
Male Speaker
So the fact that he wrote these down laid the foundation for people today to be able to continue carrying it on?
Donna Ray
Yeah. I think definitely the fact that he wrote them down and how he valued them. He thought it was one of the greatest things ever, this old, dying art form. And I know that Shelia's in England right now with Mary Eagle. And I keep seeing her Facebook page posts about how these people from England are singing the exact same songs, the exact same words, the exact same tunes. Everything is the same. And so it's really neat to think that that really did happen, like we really kept this old tradition alive, listening ears, listening in generations, and it still sounds the same. And that's awesome. And that's what Cecil Sharp was so interested in when he came here.

Partial Transcript: It means so much to me to be able to be a part of all of this and to share. I say it's my gift because I feel like it was a gift to me from my family. It's one of the coolest feelings ever to be able to think that I have something that has been part of my family for so long that I can share with everybody that not a whole lot of people know anything about. It's just really neat to think this is my family's thing. This is what we do, and this is what we're known for. There are a lot of people who are known for—their families, they play football or they're police officers and firefighters and that sort of thing, but this is my family's thing. This is what we're known for. And so it's very important to me that my children continue to do this and sing the old love songs and even learn how to play music. I don't know how to play anything, but I'll sure sing for you, you know. And I think it's—I feel like it's really awesome. I would love to be able to go and sing more and eventually, one day, make a living out of it if I can. That's my ultimate dream. That's my goal because I feel like it is really important, and I feel like kids these days, especially kids around this area, they need to learn about ballad singing and their heritage and what their family came from before there was television and video games and internet and everything. I feel like that's something they need to learn about. It's history, and I feel like it's very important.

Partial Transcript: Yup. My daughter, Arianna, she is thirteen, and she has been singing the old love songs with me. She's been going around to different places with me and singing on stage. We just sang at the Mountain Dance and Folk Festival in the beginning of this month. And she first sang with me when she was—well, she was two years old, and she sang Twinkle Twinkle Little Star on stage. But she was about five years old, and we went on tour with the North Carolina State Symphony for the Blue Skies and Red Earth tour. And we did a show at Thomas Wolfe Auditorium here in Nashville. And Arianna sang in front of 24,000 people that night. And she sang I'm going back to North Carolina. And it was just a really neat experience though. She has been getting into it. She's where I was when I first started though. It's not really that cool, and she doesn't want to be lead, and it's a little embarrassing for her. But I think she likes the fact that she's getting to share her voice as well. And I think she's slowly starting to get that it's important.

Partial Transcript: Well, I think the ballad tradition to me is it's really important because it's different than Bluegrass. It's different than Old old-time music because it really doesn't have anything other than the song and the voice. Ballads typically don't—they're typically unaccompanied. So it's important to me because it's a different style of music, and it's not the same as like I said, the Bluegrass and that sort of thing. It's an art form of its own. And it's really hard to sing a ballad sometimes. I mean, if it's too late at night, you don't have the musical accompaniment, so if you're tired and your voice is tired, it's hard to sing ballads. And I discovered that not too long ago. But also, you mess up and you're up there by yourself, there's nobody back there to be like, "Hey, the words are such and such," Or you have the music so you can just take a little while you try to remember the words because you literally have to stop and think where was I at. So it's something that's a lot harder than people think that it would be. I mean, you have songs that have eighty verses. And you're remembering them word for word. So it's special to me because it—like I said, I was born late so I didn't really get to spend that much time with my grandparents before they passed away. My grandfather, Byard, passed in 1988, and he died on my birthday. So I would have been six years old, I think, when he passed away. And I feel like it's important to me because, honestly, I feel like I can feel him behind me when I'm singing or when I'm learning a new song or I'm outside somewhere just thinking about the words. I feel like I can feel all of my ancestors behind me. And I don't know if it's something crazy to say, but that is really how I feel. And I told that to Sheila one time, and she told me that, "You've got it. You've got it. They're giving you the nod. That's them telling you it's your turn and wanting you to do good and wishing you well. That's what they're doing." She said, "That happens to me all the time." So I don't know if it's just something from home, that type of feeling. It's just really special to me because I feel like I have a way to connect with my ancestors and my grandparents that I didn't have when they were alive. So I really wish that I would have been born sooner so that I could have gotten to spend more time with them and learn a little bit more. But I feel like the ballad singing is a way for me to connect myself with them and my heritage and Madison County and my roots. So it's super important to me.

Partial Transcript: Yeah, it really is fascinating. I think if you think about it, a ballad is kind of like a soap opera or a really good movie that is shortened. It's like this condensed version of this big drama. So it's kind of hard not to remember the words because it's so interesting, and you're like, "Oh my gosh. What's going to happen next?" So you know, it's a little easy to remember the verses and the ones because you know what's about to come, but you have to know the story, and you really have to feel the story in order to remember all the words. And a lot of times you'll see the ballad singers closing their eyes when they sing, and I do that because a lot of times I'm seeing the story play out in my mind. And that's how I remember the words. So I think it's just kind of a neat thing, and that's probably how they did it back in the old days too trying to remember the words. You've got this juicy gossip that you know. The king's wife has been sleeping with this farmer boy, and you've got to go over there and tell somebody about it. So you're not going to forget the words of that. [laughter] You're going to need to tell somebody.

Partial Transcript: Well, I don't think anybody really talks about the darkness of the old love songs. I don't know why they're so dark, but I think a dark story makes for a good one. So maybe that's why those stuck around so much longer than maybe some of the others that we don't know is because they have a good, gory detail in them because everybody likes a good drama or a horror film. There are some that are pretty funny that I enjoy that have stuck around, and I think that's because those are funny because people like drama and they like comedy. I think maybe that's why they stuck around. I'm not really sure what. I've never really heard any stories as to why the ones that stuck around stuck around. But if you listen to them, you'll know.

Partial Transcript: Well, I think the songs that stick out to me the most, that make me feel kind of—I don't know a good word I would use. I guess make me feel happy or remind me of a good certain time and place or make me feel like—kind of lift my spirits when I'm feeling a little down, there's a song called Fair and Tender Ladies. And it's just basically talking about this woman who's been forsaken by her lover, and she just sings about how sorrowful she is and that sort of thing. I think that one is a good song for any girl to listen to because basically she's just telling these young girls to be careful who you love and make sure you guard your heart. And then I really enjoy Little Mathey Groves a good bit. It reminds me of my dad for some reason. I think that was one of the songs he used to sing. And Young Emily is always going to be my staple song. Like that's the song everybody knows me for. It's the first actual ballad that I learned, and it means a lot to me I guess because I sometimes feel like I am her. I think I've sung that song so much I feel like I am young Emily. But she talks about her lover and how he was murdered by her father. I just feel like I can see her singing, and I can feel her pain and her—I can feel all her emotions in that song. And I guess it's just because I've sang it so much, but it sticks with me and I feel it in my heart when I sing it.

Partial Transcript: ♪ Oh father dear father
You've got to let me know
What's happened to my driver boy
Who drove in the lowlands low ♪
♪ Oh daughter dear daughter
Don't you speak so loud and free
His gold is all for us to claim
His body's in the sea ♪
♪ Oh father cruel father
You'll die a public show
For the murdering of my driver boy
Who drove in the lowlands low ♪

♪ See the coach on yonder mountain
A moving to and fro
It reminds me of my driver-boy
Who drove in the lowlands low ♪

♪ My true love's laying in the ocean
The fish swims o'er his breast
His body's in a gentle motion
I pray that his soul's at rest ♪

Partial Transcript: Sodom is my home. Sodom is where I came from. That's where all my ancestors lived. My mom and my dad were both from Sodom. It's just this small little area in Madison County, Laurel, the Revere community. People from Sodom call it Sodom. People not from Sodom know it as Sodom, and they may call it Sodom, but most of the time people call it Revere because that's it's technical name. But Sodom got it's nick name. There were some "fureigners" as they call them, foreigners from off traveling through the area and came across this little town. And they said there was more fiddle playing and fun going on than Sodom and Gomorrah in the Bible. So that's how Sodom got its name. There are many other stories as to how Sodom got its name as well, but that's the one I like so that's the one I say. But it—you can almost feel the difference in the atmosphere when you cross over into that area. When I go there, I can feel a difference. I feel like there's a lot of emotion there like raw—I feel like I can feel sorrow and sadness and stuff like that when I go over there, but also happiness too. It's just a different feeling when you go there.

Partial Transcript: I feel like it's important that the ballad tradition continues just because, like I said earlier, I feel like it's the history of the whole thing. And why do you want kids to remember that George Washington was the first president of the United States. It's just something that's so old and so raw and so natural that I feel like it's something that should be passed down and should be kept on going just because it's something that's so unchanged and unfiltered. And it's a good way for people to learn about their heritage, and it's something fun for everybody to do, get together and have a sing-in and sit around and tell stories. I guess I just feel like it's important because it's part of my heritage. It's just something that's so raw to me.

Partial Transcript: I'm continuing the tradition. I'm trying to sing as much as I can. I go to all the festivals that I get invited to for the most part. If I can make it, I'll go. A lot of people don't want to do the ballad singing because they're not getting paid to go and be at these places and that sort of thing. I mean to me, yes, money is good, but no money is not as important as my heritage and sharing that with the world. It does help when you have to travel long distances when you have to leave your job early, you have kids. I mean, it's a good thing, but I'm not going to not sing somewhere because I'm not getting paid. The festivals around town, you usually don't get paid to sing in them. So it's just everybody getting together to share something so wonderful with everyone else. And that should be the point. I would sing every day, all the time if I could. I just—I try to go and sing just everywhere that I can. Anytime I'm invited, I'm there. I'll take time off work and make sure that I'm there. Sometimes I hard to get in touch with, but I have two kids and a job and family and a house and these sorts of things. But if I can make it, I'll do it. And sometimes I am a very last-minute kind of a girl and a little bit late at everything I do, but Sheila told me that's fashionably late. As long as you're fashionably late, it's okay. [laughter] But if I'm there, then—if say I'm going to be there, I'm going to be there. And I'm trying to keep it going by teaching the tradition to my daughter and my son, so I feel like these are the ways that I'm trying to keep the tradition alive. And I feel like my grandfather would be proud of me. I feel like both of them would, even though Pat Morris wouldn't tell me that.
Male Speaker
And how are other people keeping the tradition alive?
Donna Ray
I feel like the majority of—there are people that are not from around here that are wanting to learn the old ballads and sing them. Like Sam, I don't think he's from this area, but he learned to sing the ballads. And he tries to keep them alive by singing them. It's becoming a big community of people that are really interested in this one thing. And they're really interested in keeping it alive. And I don't—for a long time it was just like only the people in your family could sing these songs, and you could only sing it with them. But I think now everybody is starting to realize that maybe the whole family doesn't want to sing those old love songs, so you need to kind of spread it out to some more people who do. You know? I know that Sheila goes and sings all over the place all the time. Like I said, her and Mary are in England. I think Joe's going to be going to England soon. I just need to know who I need to call about this. [laughter] But I think they're keeping it going that way, and I know that sometimes we get contacted by the schools and that sort of thing to teach the kids. And sometimes I'm a little uncomfortable doing that because some of these songs are not meant for children's ears even though I learned them. It's a different day and a different age. So it's, you know, you just kind of go with your gut and see how you feel about the show or the venue or whatnot. And if feels like something's good and it feels right, then do it. So that's kind of how I go with it. And I think that's pretty much how all the other ballad singers do the same thing that we just try to sing wherever anybody wants us.

Partial Transcript: Well, I feel like if the ballad tradition faded away, I would lose a lot of—I don't really know the exact words that I would use, but I'd lose a lot of heart, you know, because it is some—I keep saying like I said, but it's something that's very important to me because I feel like it intertwines me with my past and my family. And I didn't get to grow up in the Sodom that everybody talks about. I mean, I was there for a little while during a lot of it because my grandparents and some of the older folks were still alive. So I got to live through some of Sodom in its glory days. But I didn't get to live through it during the whole thing. So I feel like that's the part of me that wants the ballad singing to stay alive because it's such an awesome place, and the people from there are wonderful and funny. And the words that they use are different than anybody else's. The people at my work, my new job, kind of make fun of me because of the way I say things or like I call wooly worms, wooly boogers. That's what we learned. That's what we were taught. And a soda is a dope. A bag is a poke. And if it's cold outside, you say, "Oozy. Oozy, it's cold outside." It's just a different time. And I would feel really sad if the ballad singing tradition died out because it's a part of me, and I feel like a part of me would die if it died out, if that makes any sense. I feel like we'd be losing out on a lot of history and time and just something so old. You can't get raw, real emotion and feeling like that nowadays. And I feel like that stuff's important. One day people are going to miss that stuff, and they're going to wish that they would have kept on listening and learning.

Partial Transcript: Okay. All right.
♪ Sailing around the ocean,
Sailing around the sea
I'd think of handsome Molly
Wherever she may be. ♪
Arianna
♪ Sailing around the ocean,
Sailing around the sea
I'd think of handsome Molly
Wherever she may be. ♪
Donna Ray
♪ I saw her in church last Sunday
While she passed me on by
I knew her mind was changing
By the roving of her eye ♪
Arianna
♪ Sailing around the ocean,
Sailing around the sea
I'd think of handsome Molly
Wherever she may be. ♪
♪ I saw her in church last Sunday
She passed me on by
I knew her mind was changing
By—
Donna Ray and Arianna
—the roving of her eye ♪
Donna Ray
♪ Her hair was black as a raven
Her eyes were black as coal
Her cheeks were like lilies
Up in the morning grown. ♪
Arianna
♪ Sailing around the ocean,
Sailing around the sea
I'd think of handsome Molly
Wherever she may be. ♪
♪ I saw her in church last Sunday
She passed me on by
I knew her mind was changing
By the roving of her eye ♪
Donna Ray
♪ Her hair was black as—keep going.
Arianna
I don't know the words.

Donna Ray
♪ Her hair was black as a raven
Her eyes were black as coal
Her cheeks were like lilies
Up in the morning grown. ♪
♪ Don't you remember, Molly
When you gave me your right hand?
You said if you ever married
That I would be the man. ♪
Arianna
♪ Sailing around the ocean,
Sailing around the sea
I'd think of handsome Molly
Wherever she may be. ♪
♪ I saw her in church last Sunday
She passed me on by
I knew her mind was changing
By the roving of her eye ♪
♪ Her hair was black as a raven
Her eyes were black as coal
Her cheeks were like lilies
Up in the morning grown. ♪
♪ Don't you remember, Molly
When you gave me your right hand?
You said if you ever married
That I would be the man. ♪
Donna Ray
♪ You've broken your promise
Go marry who you please
While my poor heart is aching
Here lying at your ease. ♪
Arianna
Sailing around the ocean,
Sailing around the sea
I'd think of handsome Molly
Wherever she may be. ♪
♪ I saw her in church last Sunday
She passed me on by
I knew her mind was changing
By the roving of her eye ♪
♪ Her hair was black as a raven
Her eyes were black as coal
Her cheeks were like lilies
Up in the morning grown. ♪
♪ Don't you remember, Molly
When you gave me your right hand?
You said if you ever married
That I would be the man. ♪
♪ You've broken your promise
Go marry who you please
While my poor heart is aching
Here lying at your ease. ♪