Mary Thompson on Cherokee Basketmaking

Partial Transcript: My name's Mary W. Thompson. I am a tribal member with the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians. I'm a veteran of the United States Air Force. I'm a gardener grandma, mom, and I'm a basket weaver. I'm an artist, basket maker, I should say.

David Weintraub
Let's talk about the role River Cane played in Cherokee culture. How far back did the Cherokee use it and what did they do with it?
Mary
I have read that 10,000 years ago some woven fibers were found in a salt marsh in Petit Assumption Louisiana. And, so, the Cherokee and other tribes of the Southeast have been using native materials for basket making for 5,000, 10,000 year ago.

Keywords: gardening; basket making

Partial Transcript: David Weintraub
How did Cherokee approach protecting and harvesting the cane to ensure its continued survival before the colonists came.

Mary Thompson
They did selective harvesting. They cut the mature cane, which was going to die back anyway, but that allowed for the younger shoots then to come through and to continue to protect the land and stabilize the river banks, but to be a resource utilized within the homes.

David Weintraub
So, how you harvest it actually helped to preserve it and protect it, rather than the western approach, which was going to cut everything down and then wonder why it's not there?

Mary Thompson

Right. You don't want to clear, cut everything out. You need to do the sustainable harvesting and ensure that it continues to survive. It survived long before we got here.

Keywords: preservation; rivercane; river cane

Partial Transcript: David Weintraub
How did the Cherokee express their gratitude to the cane? Was there an exchange of energy, of gifts? I know there was this concept that you don't take, only take what's given to you. How did that work?

Mary Thompson
Well, how that worked would probably best be answered by someone else with a little more knowledge. I'm not sure what that give and take or the ceremonial or the gift were. I feel though that just by being a sustainable harvester that you're contributing and giving back to the patch.
David Weintraub
What caused river cane to be so rare today?

Mary Thompson
Man has caused river cane to be depleted as a resource. River cane likes waterfront property, and due to development and pollution and flooding, the land just isn't as healthy as it used to be.

Betty Maney (?)
Another thing too, is that we're finding out as farmers start enlarging their crop land for planting like corn, they would mow it down as well, not knowing what they had.

Mary Thompson
Yeah. And that's just the same, they're still clear cutting, and they're still wiping out the cane patches in lieu of farms or in lieu of views.

Partial Transcript: David Weintraub
What else was river cane used in addition to basket making?

Mary Thompson
As far as I'm aware, it was used for, um, uh, weaponry. It was used for housing; it was used for roofing. It was used for just many other, other things besides just basketry, walnut mats, um, floor mats, sleeping mats.

David Weintraub
Somebody, I think David Kozo told me when I interviewed him years ago that, um, river King was the plastic of, of the Cherokee. They, they could use, they can make almost anything with it. But it didn't pollute the planet like plastic does. (short comment from outside) So, let's talk specifically about basket making for a minute. When we already talked about the basket, how far back basket making goes, how are basket makers observant of the health of the cane?

Mary Thompson
How are we observant to the health of the cane? I think just a little bit ago you kind of witnessed some of us trying to clear out some of the old cane so that it would give the newer cane a better chance of survival or better growth. Just harvesting the older, more mature and allowing the younger ones to continue is about the quickest and easiest way for me to contribute to the survival of the patch

Keywords: river cane

Partial Transcript: David Weintraub
Somebody, I think David Kozo told me when I interviewed him years ago that, um, river King was the plastic of, of the Cherokee. They, they could use, they can make almost anything with it. But it didn't pollute the planet like plastic does. (short comment from outside) So, let's talk specifically about basket making for a minute. When we already talked about the basket, how far back basket making goes, how are basket makers observant of the health of the cane?

Mary Thompson
How are we observant to the health of the cane? I think just a little bit ago you kind of witnessed some of us trying to clear out some of the old cane so that it would give the newer cane a better chance of survival or better growth. Just harvesting the older, more mature and allowing the younger ones to continue is about the quickest and easiest way for me to contribute to the survival of the patch

Keywords: cane

Partial Transcript: David Weintraub
Does making them double weave help to keep the contents in, when baskets were originally used as for utilitarian purpose,

Mary Thompson
The double weave basket was probably used more for storage of valuable, maybe ritual items. But even seeds would be considered a valuable item. The double weave could have been woven really tight, and sometimes, maybe even beeswax used to seal it up, which would kind of help make it water resistant to keep whatever was inside of it dry and more stable.

Keywords: basket making; double weave

Partial Transcript: David Weintraub
How far back does basket making go in your family?

Mary Thompson
My family basket making has gone back further than I know; everyone wove baskets. It was utilitarian. We needed it for storage, for harvesting, for gathering, for everything. So, all families had to know how to do that. They also made pottery. They also grew their gardens. Every family had to do everything. Now, as far as the river cane basketry, though, we have, participated in a revitalization project that started about 20 years ago when the Cherokee started to realize that our basket weavers and our resources were at risk of not surviving. So, they did some classes -Mom, Lou, myself, my daughter, we all participated. While we were basket weavers and basket makers, our main resource was white oak and honeysuckle and other resources that the Cherokee came to use as they got pushed further back into the mountain and away from the river cane. So, we learned to do the double weave. Yes, we'd always known how to do the single weave, but the double weave technique was something special and totally different. And it's now, I think, our favorite, our favorite weaving technique.

David Weintraub
Is it more complicated?

Mary Thompson
I think so. When you first learned it, yeah. But once you get it, once you get it, you got it.

Keywords: basket making

Partial Transcript: David Weintraub
Why is it important to continue the tradition today?

Mary Thompson
Because it is part of our culture. It's part of our heritage, it's part of us to con continue doing this. I think the more you do, the more you learn, the more you appreciate how your culture and your traditions and your identity and your language and your myths and your legends and your everything, come full circle and all tied back together. It don't matter if it's the legend Maylee and the Mud Dauber; if it's the legend of some of our dyes and things like that, that legend and that piece of art, well now it's art, then it wasn't art, but now it's art. They fit together. They tie together. Some of the questions though, I would like Betty and Gabe to get their answers and get their input.

David Weintraub
I do it one at a time. When I do it with lots of people, particularly people who know each other well, they talk over each other and it's hard to record, it's hard to use that in a film,

Mary Thompson
So. Right. Okay.

David Weintraub
I definitely want to talk to everybody. Anyone who wants to talk to me. What does it mean to your family?

Mary Thompson
Basket making, basket weaving, I think really means a lot to my family now because it's more of a carrying on the traditions. So, what it means to our family to carry on the traditions is to be able to produce some art and artwork that is culturally significant to us as Cherokee people.

David Weintraub
How does continuing the tradition connect you to your ancestors?

Mary Thompson
Continuing the tradition of the river cane basketry connects me to my ancestors in a way that shows me how smart they were to be able to come up with and use this resource when there were no modern tools or modern conveniences. The hardships that they went through and the intelligence to use the resources that they had, I guess according to legend, that would've been taught to them by other animals and other kingdoms and other stories, but that they survived, and they figured out ways to use the gifts that were here for them.

David Weintraub

Anything else that I didn't ask you about that you want to mention?

Mary Thompson

00:14:15 There is one thing I can do to kind of continue to pass on my cultures and traditions and to share and to teach. And if I can do that with my kids or your kids, or anybody's kids, the schools, the students, if I can grab their interest a little bit and teach them something and they want to learn and are willing to learn, then I enjoy passing that on. Thank you so much.

Subjects: basket making; tradition